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Re: few questions for the RAT PACK

To: rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com
Subject: Re: few questions for the RAT PACK
From: "Mark Farr" <farrmark@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 17:15:05 -0000
Wow. Great. Now that you guys have all that worked out, how 'bout the 
original question, regarding opinions about reviewers/critics/yada yada?
I'm also interested to read what others think about this very interesting 
topic.  And yes, I know I can refer to the home site or something, but I'd 
like to get some current thoughts.




>From: "Glen 'Skip' Newell" <skipworthy@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com
>To: <rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com>
>Subject: Re: few questions for the RAT PACK
>Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 06:10:48 -0600
>
> > And I stand by my "their."  You wanna piece a me?
> >
> > And yes, I AM in a freshman comp class.  As a teacher.
> >
> > Love and kisses-
> >
> > Melissa Hillman
>
>
>Okay...here we go...( and NO, you don't intimidate me with your
>teacher-status...I can't throw a rock without disturbing a FLOCK of
>graduate-degree english majors)
>
>1. Congratulations on your knowledge of the collective linguistic heritage,
>including your aparrent understanding of the origin and use of words.  I
>grant that certain words, over time, have fallen into disuse, and for good
>reason- this was never an issue. I also grant that language is a fluid
>thing, and also that one should 'write for one's audience' ie; take care
>with things like Pronouns to avoid obscuring the issue at hand.
>
>2. If I sound snippy, it's because MAINLY I was accused of ...'using
>predominatly the 'he' prounoun' , which is not only an outright
>misstatement, but is  somewhat inflammatory  to point out in a public 
>forum.
>In FACT( if we MUST pick these nits)...I did use the 'hip and cool'  THEY
>'predominatly'. I only used the pronoun  'HE' twice, and then when I was
>also referring later to two examples which were specifically , yes, Male (
>if only because they were the ones that came to mind...)
>
>3. Since you seemed to miss the main point, I will reiterate plainly- the
>Pronoun 'HE' is niether antiquated, nor in any way inaccurate. Again, out
>here in the real world, professor, 'HE' is considered not only acceptable ,
>but STANDARD for referring to a non gender-specific case. And although it 
>is
>fallen into disfavor, 'HE' is hardly  an'new ' word, or even being used in 
>a
>new way, so I doubt Mr. Webster is rushing to his word processor to 
>'update'
>the dictionary just because some people want it that way. And I can't
>remember the last time I noticed 'conservative wailing and gnashing of
>teeth' over changes in the dictionary, either, even socio-culteral
>references, ESPECIALLY when it comes to theanguage shifts to which you
>refer. it is primarily the 'academic right' that does the teeth gnashing 
>and
>wailing.
>
>4. My comments on L's level of education and trustworthiness, I grant, may
>have been a bit  heavy handed, but I stand by the point I made. 'SHE' ( am 
>I
>using the pronoun correctly , professor?) accused 'ME'. 'She' was 
>incorrect,
>and what's more, served to demonstrate one of the original points I tried 
>to
>make in a very subtle way before. As a friend of mine who is a professional
>writer says 'alot of people think they can WRITE just because they can sit
>down at a keyboard and get someone to print thier drivel.'. I wasn't just
>disagreeing- I was correcting a statement and an accusation that were just
>plain wrong. Furthermore, when I , as an intelligent and educated person,
>read stuff like that, my response is one of mistrust.
>
>5. Air temperature is a relative measurement. For your edification, 'full 
>of
>hot air' is one of those newfangled uses of language you are so fond of-
>it's called a euphemism, The straighforward definition of which I am too
>much of a gentleman to state here.
>
>6. One should probably only stand by words they can spell and use correctly
>( as long as we're picking nits). it's 'Thier',  professor.
>
>
>peace and Love-
>Skip
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Impacttheatre@aol.com>
>To: <rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com>
>Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 12:51 AM
>Subject: Re: few questions for the RAT PACK
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 3/31/01 8:00:46 PM, skipworthy@hotmail.com writes:
> >
> > << And I AM being as kind as I can. >>
> >
> > Really?  You sound kinda snippy to me.
> >
> > In any case, the language is in a constant state of flux, despite the 
>many
> > attempts to codify it at its various stages of development.  We managed 
>to
> > drop "thee" and "thou" when levels of politeness became less important 
>to
> > English speakers, or perhaps more important, as everyone then became
>included
> > in the "polite" form "you" (corresponding to the modern Spanish 
>"Usted").
> >
> > The attempt to drop the antiquated and thoroughly inaccurate "he" for 
>what
>is
> > now popularly stated as "they" or academically stated as "s/he" isn't
>really
> > so bad, now is it?  This sort of garden-variety language shift is 
>exactly
>why
> > dictionaries are updated on a regular basis.  It's not just to include
>words
> > like "dotcom."
> >
> > Language is important.  It shapes what we think.  In my opinion, "they"
>and
> > "their" and etc in this vein will become standard usage in the next
>hundred
> > years or so, despite the academic and conservative wailing and gnashing 
>of
> > teeth that generally accompany changes in the language.
> >
> > Attacks on one's level of education, trustworthiness, and air 
>temperature
>are
> > uncalled for.
> >
> > It's actually easy to be nice to people.  It makes everything easier.
> > Bloviating about someone's personal characteristics when in actuality 
>you
> > simply disagree with their position is, um, uncool.  Dude.
> >
> > And I stand by my "their."  You wanna piece a me?
> >
> > And yes, I AM in a freshman comp class.  As a teacher.
> >
> > Love and kisses-
> >
> > Melissa Hillman
> > Artistic Director
> > Impact Theatre
> > P.O. Box 12666
> > Berkeley, CA 94712-3666
> >
> > (510) 464-4468
> > http://www.impacttheatre.com
> >
> > "Action Movie: The Play" plays until April 21st!
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
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