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RE: RAT Re: Rat Spat
Karen,
This whole thing has gotten out of hand. I don't want to prove anything to
you or write or even read about this any more. I don't have the time or the
interest.
Please, please, please remember when you read the following that you asked
"Could you please tell me how i shot down every comment in a negative
way--"
Since you asked I will say this:
If you want to see what I am talking about look at Chris Jeffries first
response to you, then look at your response to him. If you didn't intend to
rebuff him point by point then you should know that it came across that way.
One more example:
"Could you please tell me how i shot down every comment in a
negative
way--show me the exact quote on my posts so i know what you're
talking
about. I may not be expressing myself well, but people telling me
to stop
whining, take a walk, read self help, you're boring.....this is all
patronizing and mean, and i'm sick of it!"
Can you see the irony in this paragraph?
1. "Tell me how I shot down every comment in a negative way
2. "People telling me to stop whining, take a walk, read self-help, you're
boring" (= comments of others)
3. "this is all patronizing and mean, and I'm sick of it! (=negative
response)
And then finally this:
"I don't mind getting advice on methods of getting produced, but no,
i don't
need to be told how to be or how to act."
How to be or act = How you present yourself to your world = methods
of getting produced.
Karen. I am sure you are a wonderful person with a rich full life.
You obviously hate getting advice. Most people do. Advice is crap. Please
stop asking for it. I will stop giving it.
I solomnly swear that I will never post again on this topic.
excelsior!
js
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karen Cronacher [SMTP:kcron@ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 11:12 PM
> To: rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com
> Subject: Re: RAT Re: Rat Spat
>
> John,
>
> I'm sorry but i'm still clueless here and now Kerry is calling me boring
> and
> this is really too much.
> Could you please tell me how i shot down every comment in a negative
> way--show me the exact quote on my posts so i know what you're talking
> about. I may not be expressing myself well, but people telling me to stop
> whining, take a walk, read self help, you're boring.....this is all
> patronizing and mean, and i'm sick of it!
>
>
> I don't give a fuck about being obscure or what the annex wants to do or
> staged readings....i don't want to discuss that anymore, or be defined by
> my
> posts on those subjects.
>
> What's this now? A number of people have written to you privately to
> complain about my posts??? That's great!! Thanks for sharing. I feel a
> lot better.
>
> No one likes to be given personal advice. it's a patronizing power trip.
> I
> don't mind getting advice on methods of getting produced, but no, i don't
> need to be told how to be or how to act.
>
> i'm really sick of discussing this.
>
> --Karen
> ----------
> >From: "Sylvain, John" <jsylvain@station.sony.com>
> >To: "'rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com'" <rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com>
> >Subject: RE: RAT Re: Rat Spat
> >Date: Thu, Feb 25, 1999, 4:10 PM
> >
>
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Karen Cronacher [SMTP:kcron@ix.netcom.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 4:07 PM
> >> To: rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com
> >> Subject: RAT Re: Rat Spat
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------
> > ... i'm hurt that you're "turned off" by my posts, but
> >> i have a right to self expression, and comments like that are better
> left
> >> unwritten.
> >>
> >> --Karen.
> > [Sylvain, John]
> > Exactly. You have a right to self expression. so do I. Please note
> >that I didn't say you were bad I said that "I was turned off by your
> posts".
> >I was. Me. I don't hold you responsible in anyway for my emotional
> states. I
> >told you how I felt in hopes that you might understand how your
> >communication lands over here. That's all. This reaction here, defensive,
> >assuming someone is saying something just to be nasty, is what I meant
> when
> >I said.
> >
> > "shoot down every suggestion or comment in this very negative way"
> >
> > A number of people have written me privately thanking me for saying
> >what was on their minds. I say that not to prove that I'm right but to
> try,
> >one more time, to get you to see the communication model you are living
> in.
> >You have a right to say what you want, but if you ask for help and then
> turn
> >it away (in my opinion) I have a right to say something too.
> >
> > What I sensed in your communication was a (normal, natural but not
> >helpful) resistance to any kind of advice. I wanted to point that out.
> >Perhaps I was too harsh. Perhaps this medium is not suited for this kind
> of
> >discussion. Perhaps you are still thinking that advice=attack. (Please
> >remember that this started with your complaint about not getting your
> stuff
> >done) Perhaps its none of my goddamn business.
> >
> > I will assume the latter.
> >
> > Good Luck in all you do!
> >
> >
> > Excelsior!
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> >From: "Sylvain, John" <jsylvain@station.sony.com>
> >> >To: "'rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com'" <rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com>
> >> >Subject: RE: RAT A comment in general
> >> >Date: Tue, Feb 23, 1999, 3:30 PM
> >> >
> >>
> >> >The frustrating thing about this thread is that you say you want
> feedback
> >> so
> >> >that marketing your script is experienced as a flow activity but then
> you
> >> >shoot down every suggestion or comment in this very negative way. I'm
> not
> >> >speaking specifically about this comment ("Stop Whining...") but also
> >> Chris'
> >> >suggestions. After 10 very happy successful years in this world of
> fringe
> >> >theater I have observed two basic principles that I would pass on to
> you.
> >> >Not surprisingly they have already been mentioned in other ways.
> >> >
> >> >1. You get what you expect so why not expect the best. This is a
> simple,
> >> >powerful concept that has been repeated over and over again in self
> help
> >> >books so I won't go into it. You either buy it or you don't. The thing
> is
> >> >that its true. You seem to know how it HAS TO BE to be a writer and
> part
> >> of
> >> >your paradyme is that no one will do your work.
> >> >
> >> >Change your mind and the rest will follow.
> >> >
> >> >2. The most powerful thing you can do is make personal contact with
> >> people.
> >> >Simple. Do it. Works in every way. Don't hate the people that might be
> >> >choosing your show because they might say no this year.
> >> >
> >> >Trite enough for you?
> >> >
> >> >I don't want to tell you how you should be but I think you could be
> more
> >> >effective. As an artistic director I was intrigued by your first post
> and
> >> >then completely turned off by the negativity of everything you said
> >> >afterwards. If you really want your plays done act like they will be
> >> done.
> >> >If you want your plays to be the best unproduced plays of the early
> 21st
> >> >century then keep on doing what you're doing.
> >> >
> >> >Look at Erik Ehn. Erik is such an amazing guy that everybody does his
> >> plays
> >> >all over the place even though none of us know what the heck they
> mean.
> >> >
> >> >Just kiddin'
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Excelsior!!
> >> >John
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Karen Cronacher [SMTP:kcron@ix.netcom.com]
> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 4:12 PM
> >> >> To: rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com
> >> >> Subject: Re: RAT A comment in general
> >> >>
> >> >> i guess because i'm a feminist, i don't consider talking about
> issues
> >> >> "whining" but engaging in the struggle which is a step towards
> change.
> >> i
> >> >> am
> >> >> not talking about being a happy person here. Happiness is about
> having
> >> >> flow
> >> >> activities in your life, like writing or theatre, that make you
> forget
> >> >> daily
> >> >> life, forget time, and give you immediate feedback. so i just want
> >> more
> >> >> feedback so i can experience the marketing of a script as a flow
> >> >> activity.
> >> >>
> >> >> --Karen
> >> >> ----------
> >> >> >From: WestLAMan@aol.com
> >> >> >To: rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com
> >> >> >Subject: RAT A comment in general
> >> >> >Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999, 8:10 PM
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> >Please stop whining - life in the theatre is tough, always has been
> >> tough
> >> >> and
> >> >> >it will always be tough, especially when you stick your neck out.
> >> Have
> >> >> life,
> >> >> >keep working and beware looking outside yourself for happiness,
> >> approval
> >> >> and
> >> >> >recognition - nix blaming anyone...
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Martin/Bottom's Dream/Los Angeles
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >