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Re: RAT Re: Rat Spat
John,
I'm sorry but i'm still clueless here and now Kerry is calling me boring and
this is really too much.
Could you please tell me how i shot down every comment in a negative
way--show me the exact quote on my posts so i know what you're talking
about. I may not be expressing myself well, but people telling me to stop
whining, take a walk, read self help, you're boring.....this is all
patronizing and mean, and i'm sick of it!
I don't give a fuck about being obscure or what the annex wants to do or
staged readings....i don't want to discuss that anymore, or be defined by my
posts on those subjects.
What's this now? A number of people have written to you privately to
complain about my posts??? That's great!! Thanks for sharing. I feel a
lot better.
No one likes to be given personal advice. it's a patronizing power trip. I
don't mind getting advice on methods of getting produced, but no, i don't
need to be told how to be or how to act.
i'm really sick of discussing this.
--Karen
----------
>From: "Sylvain, John" <jsylvain@station.sony.com>
>To: "'rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com'" <rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com>
>Subject: RE: RAT Re: Rat Spat
>Date: Thu, Feb 25, 1999, 4:10 PM
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Karen Cronacher [SMTP:kcron@ix.netcom.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 4:07 PM
>> To: rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com
>> Subject: RAT Re: Rat Spat
>>
>>
>> ----------
> ... i'm hurt that you're "turned off" by my posts, but
>> i have a right to self expression, and comments like that are better left
>> unwritten.
>>
>> --Karen.
> [Sylvain, John]
> Exactly. You have a right to self expression. so do I. Please note
>that I didn't say you were bad I said that "I was turned off by your posts".
>I was. Me. I don't hold you responsible in anyway for my emotional states. I
>told you how I felt in hopes that you might understand how your
>communication lands over here. That's all. This reaction here, defensive,
>assuming someone is saying something just to be nasty, is what I meant when
>I said.
>
> "shoot down every suggestion or comment in this very negative way"
>
> A number of people have written me privately thanking me for saying
>what was on their minds. I say that not to prove that I'm right but to try,
>one more time, to get you to see the communication model you are living in.
>You have a right to say what you want, but if you ask for help and then turn
>it away (in my opinion) I have a right to say something too.
>
> What I sensed in your communication was a (normal, natural but not
>helpful) resistance to any kind of advice. I wanted to point that out.
>Perhaps I was too harsh. Perhaps this medium is not suited for this kind of
>discussion. Perhaps you are still thinking that advice=attack. (Please
>remember that this started with your complaint about not getting your stuff
>done) Perhaps its none of my goddamn business.
>
> I will assume the latter.
>
> Good Luck in all you do!
>
>
> Excelsior!
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> >From: "Sylvain, John" <jsylvain@station.sony.com>
>> >To: "'rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com'" <rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com>
>> >Subject: RE: RAT A comment in general
>> >Date: Tue, Feb 23, 1999, 3:30 PM
>> >
>>
>> >The frustrating thing about this thread is that you say you want feedback
>> so
>> >that marketing your script is experienced as a flow activity but then you
>> >shoot down every suggestion or comment in this very negative way. I'm not
>> >speaking specifically about this comment ("Stop Whining...") but also
>> Chris'
>> >suggestions. After 10 very happy successful years in this world of fringe
>> >theater I have observed two basic principles that I would pass on to you.
>> >Not surprisingly they have already been mentioned in other ways.
>> >
>> >1. You get what you expect so why not expect the best. This is a simple,
>> >powerful concept that has been repeated over and over again in self help
>> >books so I won't go into it. You either buy it or you don't. The thing is
>> >that its true. You seem to know how it HAS TO BE to be a writer and part
>> of
>> >your paradyme is that no one will do your work.
>> >
>> >Change your mind and the rest will follow.
>> >
>> >2. The most powerful thing you can do is make personal contact with
>> people.
>> >Simple. Do it. Works in every way. Don't hate the people that might be
>> >choosing your show because they might say no this year.
>> >
>> >Trite enough for you?
>> >
>> >I don't want to tell you how you should be but I think you could be more
>> >effective. As an artistic director I was intrigued by your first post and
>> >then completely turned off by the negativity of everything you said
>> >afterwards. If you really want your plays done act like they will be
>> done.
>> >If you want your plays to be the best unproduced plays of the early 21st
>> >century then keep on doing what you're doing.
>> >
>> >Look at Erik Ehn. Erik is such an amazing guy that everybody does his
>> plays
>> >all over the place even though none of us know what the heck they mean.
>> >
>> >Just kiddin'
>> >
>> >
>> >Excelsior!!
>> >John
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Karen Cronacher [SMTP:kcron@ix.netcom.com]
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 4:12 PM
>> >> To: rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com
>> >> Subject: Re: RAT A comment in general
>> >>
>> >> i guess because i'm a feminist, i don't consider talking about issues
>> >> "whining" but engaging in the struggle which is a step towards change.
>> i
>> >> am
>> >> not talking about being a happy person here. Happiness is about having
>> >> flow
>> >> activities in your life, like writing or theatre, that make you forget
>> >> daily
>> >> life, forget time, and give you immediate feedback. so i just want
>> more
>> >> feedback so i can experience the marketing of a script as a flow
>> >> activity.
>> >>
>> >> --Karen
>> >> ----------
>> >> >From: WestLAMan@aol.com
>> >> >To: rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com
>> >> >Subject: RAT A comment in general
>> >> >Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999, 8:10 PM
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> >Please stop whining - life in the theatre is tough, always has been
>> tough
>> >> and
>> >> >it will always be tough, especially when you stick your neck out.
>> Have
>> >> life,
>> >> >keep working and beware looking outside yourself for happiness,
>> approval
>> >> and
>> >> >recognition - nix blaming anyone...
>> >> >
>> >> >Martin/Bottom's Dream/Los Angeles
>> >> >
>> >
>