Re: RAT Gore, gosh darnit!

[NashGay@aol.com]

In a message dated 10/12/00 6:47:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
OPSHOPPE@aol.com writes:

<< Mr. Nashgay, your argument for voting for Gore suffers from the false 
 presumption that he is  more liberal than shrub is. 

--it's a correct pressumption.  not false at all.  gore is for ENDA, bush is 
not ("special rights" he hollers).  gore is pro-choice, bush is not.

Is Gore any less in the 
 pocket of major corporations? no. Is he a major stockholder in Occidental 
 Petroleum? (yes) Who is the largest individual polluter in the U.S.? The 
U.S. 
 government. Will that change under Gore? No.  How many times was the 
military 
 deployed under Bill Clinton (who has still has a few months in office)? 118. 
 How many times under Ronald Reagan? 72. 

--if you're right about these, then these issues do put gore on similiar 
footing with bush.  your mistake is ignoring the ways gore is more liberal 
than bush (choice, gay rights, education, social security).

Who reduced welfare spending more? 
 Clinton or Reagan? Clinton, by far.  

--this makes clinton's record on welfare reduction more successful than 
reagan's.  and bravo.  welfare reduction is a good thing.  i like the central 
direction the democratic party has gone on welfare.  i like education 
re-training more than our traditional forms of welfare.  spend on solutions.

Who's one of the most liberal judges on 
 the Supreme Court? Arguably, David Souter, appointed by shrub's dad. 

--are you saying that this means shrub will appoint liberals?  because souter 
got in under shrub's daddy's radar?  that's a leap.  and an incorrect one.

who's 
 entire voting record was pro-life  until he first decided to run for 
 President in 1988? 

--and it's remained pro-choice ever since.  at least he switched to the 
better position.  maybe  you worry he'll switch back?  dont' worry.  he won't.

Al Gore's. And Gore is socially progressive? Yeah--like 
 those record labels he and his wife wanted to impose back in the 80s, and 
his 
 6 month ultimatum to the movie industry to clean up its act (just before he 
 quietly reversed himself at a $1,000 a plate Hollywood fundraiser). 

--not very progressive.  i trust him more than bush on social issues.  
nader's got the right postions, i believe.  but a vote for him means 
something different.  it's symbolic or it's about matching funds or a very 
long shot on a 3rd party way far down the road.  my initial post was about a 
strategic vote for gore.  and how it will have real effects now.  and bush in 
the white house will have real effects now.  enough votes for nader will put 
bush in now and will take decades to get the green or any 3rd party into any 
positoin of power.  and while those decades pass by, bush's 4 or 8 years will 
have horrible consequences.

Above 
 all, ask yourself this question: why on earth would anyone want to bar third 
 party candidates from the national debate? 

--i for one am VERY AGAINST the very IDEA of a bi-partisan "commission on 
presidential debates" it's phenominally un-democratic, un-american, unfair, 
evil, bad and full of shit.  any party that can get on all 50 states ballods 
should be debating before the american public.  fuck the dems, reps, gore and 
bush for that shit!

The answer is, they are afraid of 
 the public hearing the truth, and they are afraid of having to field 
 embarassing questions. 

--it would be interesting to see how they'd hold up against nader and 
buchannan.  they could win, lose or do nothing.  we'll never know how they 
would have effected 2000 which is a travesty.

Bush and Gore are snuggled up in the same sleeping 
 bag, and to think that Gore is even a marginal improvement is like saying 
 that you'd rather be shot by Stalin than by Hitler. TravSD >>

--i'd rather women not lose the right to chose.  i'd rather enda pass.  i'd 
rather not have to bail out the younger generation who's social security 
gambles bush wants could go south in the future, i'd rather have a sound, 
progressive education agenda.  and i'd rather you not have invited hitler and 
stalin into this debate.