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Re: RAT SUPERBOWL INTERVAL HIJINKS
Well Mr. Houts--
Consider me humbled.
you're a very smart and clearly erudite man.
Please accept my most abject apologies for the condescending lectures.
Grovelingly,
Lu
>From: "William Houts" <houts.w@ghc.org>
>Reply-To: rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com
>To: <rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com>
>Subject: Re: RAT SUPERBOWL INTERVAL HIJINKS
>Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 12:05:52 -0800
>
>
>
> >Really Mr. Houts I think it's our responsibility to differentiate
>between Mass Popular Culture and High >Art. I think the fact that we
>deliberately >
> >blur the line so often is just laziness on o>ur part. I think it's easy
>(and
>
>All right. Your point is one which I have made myself at various times.
>You can trust that I'm heartily sick of the post-modern brand of art, or
>the self-referential stufff that goes by that name.
>
>But I think the point I'm making here is more ambivalent than that. I know
>the difference between the ILIAD and THE BUGALOOS, Ms. Mannheim. I think
>everyone on the listserv does. And you should know that your apparent
>willingness to deliver lectures on that distinction to your North American
>colleagues reads as more than a little condescending.
>
>But the point here --one of several points being made here, I think-- is
>that being an artist has something mysterious to do with being who you are,
>where you are and when you are. And like it or not, we were born into a
>culture which seems to give the sculptures of Praxiteles and episodes of
>GILLIGAN'S ISLAND roughly equivalent weight.
>
>Now, of course one of our duties as artists is discernment. We make
>decisions about what is valuable and what is not, what to keep and what to
>discard. I think that aspect of the artist's work must have been relatively
>simple for Mr. Praxiteles himself. He had comparatively few models against
>which to judge his own work, fewer masters and charlatans to quarrel with,
>back there in the 5th century BCE. Some kouroi, insipid or severe, in the
>styles of the previous century. A temple god or two. The profiles on
>coins, maybe. A frieze. And that was it.
>
>Have you ever seen a Praxiteles, either up close or in a photograph? The
>strength and grace of his sculpture is a mature thing, the work of an adult
>artist who knew other artists and their work. But it has simplicity.
>Simply put, there were problems he didn't even have to think about. He
>didn't have THE BRADY BUNCH. He didn't have the Superbowl.
>
>But we do. We have Praxiteles, and Jane Austen and SOUTH PACIFIC and the
>ILIAD and Bazooka Joe comics and Googi furniture and Popeye gumball
>machines and the GIERNICA and --Mother of Christ protect us-- Andrew Lloyd
>Webber's CATS.
>
>We don't have the luxury of being Praxiteles, or even one of his numerous
>2nd century Romanh forgers. We have the duty and the agony and the joy of
>sifting through 2500 years or more of true art and vulgar trash. We have
>to make sense of it, laugh at it,love it. Even reject it outright, if that
>seems best to us.
>
>But archaic and classical civilization is gone, Ms. Mannheim. We were born
>to GUERNICA; but we were also born to THE BUGALOOS, and we can't at this
>time in history pretend that we were not. Perhaps we'll discard it; maybe
>it is offal, sure. Probably is. But we might well find something useful in
>the BUGALOOS, or in SOUTH PACIFIC or in GUMBY cartoons--even while we're
>trying to mount a production of THE TEMPEST.
>
>And that, I think, Ms. Mannheim, is what it means to be a RAT.
>
>
>--Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>keep in mind I was a TV baby too-- and
>
>
>maybe it's that MY TV wasn't as good
>as yours) to say that Josie and The PussyCats is a critical element in
>public cultural debate. But is it really? Is there a dialectic presented
>in
>that TV show that is not only meaningful but sparks public debate? Does it
>really make us look at our lives differently? Does it really present some
>kind of balancing act between the ridiculous and the sublime?
>Just asking.
>And Yes, Mr. Houts I'm a nasty cranky old slag.
>L
>
>
>
> >From: "Sylvain, John" <jsylvain@station.sony.com>
> >Reply-To: rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com
> >To: "'rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com'" <rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com>
> >Subject: RE: RAT THE SUPERBOWL?
> >Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:14:25 -0800
> >
> >Aaah. Now we're getting somewhere!
> >
> >1. Chris, thank you for pointing out the burden of email. I am at work
>and
> >I
> >get and send email all day long. I love it because it distracts me and,
> >having ADD, I can't really get anything done unless I am distracted. But
> >now
> >I get it. And I am sorry. I pledge to reduce the number of quick
>responses
> >and junk that I generate.
> >
> >2. I agree with TimNGail and Brad. Popular culture is surreal. Its fun to
> >dissect. It's fuel for the fire.
> >
> >Corporations are the enemy of individuals. We are the guerrilla fighters,
> >hiding behind trees and digging in tunnels. Storytelling and performance
> >are
> >the ideological weapons that both sides use. But they stole them from us,
> >from the RATs and the Shamans and the Gypsies and the Vagabonds and the
> >Fools and the Nomads and the Clowns. We must take them back.
> >
> >Serve. Rinse. Repeat.
> >
> >3. I agree with Matt Bretz about the influences of dance theater and
>Peter
> >Sellers.
> >
> >Lucie, I really wish you had actually seen the halftime show. It was
> >terrifying and wonderful and banal all at once. It was beautifully
>designed
> >and horribly staged. It had this sense of Epic Ritual and spirital
>Renewal,
> >with Phil Collins, perhaps the least exciting performer of the past half
> >century, in a polar fleece pull over in the the center of it all. It went
> >beyond bad and into the realm of...alien-ness. But it was obviously
> >influenced by Dance Theater and Contemporary Opera. Thats why its worth
> >discussion. It was theater. It was bad, expensive and pointless but it
>was
> >very theatrical and everyone saw it.
> >
> >"What am I doing here. I said. To my self."
> >
> >4. Thank you werner for the haiku. Thank you lucie for the opening of
>this
> >discussion. Thank you peggy for whatever it is that you do. Thank you
>Chris
> >for the course correction.
> >
> >In closing I'd just like to say:
> >
> >Thank You (Falletinme Be Mice Elf Agin.)
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Lucie Manheim [SMTP:luciemanheim@hotmail.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 6:40 AM
> > > To: rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com
> > > Subject: Re: RAT THE SUPERBOWL?
> > >
> > > Well, since I wasn't clear, what I meant to say was this:
> > > I don't think that artists need to live in some sophmoric cliche (ie
> > > lattes
> > > and cigarettes-- though both are lovely), in fact to the contrary.
>And
> >I
> > > certainly don't think we should always assume we're going to be poor
>and
> > > at
> > > the mercy of our respective corrupt governments for hand outs, but I
>DO
> > > think that the list below (fashion week in NY, Golden Globes, the GAP,
> > > "hot"
> > > writers in Hollywood, etc) represent the most vile and insidious
> >corporate
> > >
> > > packaging plans possible. They exist as an opportunity to make
>somebody
> >a
> > > whole bunch of money. And so, I think whenever possible we should
> >suspect
> > > the motives of corporate packaging. And sorry Yanks, to me, the
> >Superbowl
> > >
> > > is nothing more than packaging, packaging, packaging. In my time in
>the
> > > States, I watched many highschool and college football games and
> > > appreciated, no loved the game. And in my own country I'm an Arsenal
> >fan
> > > through and through, make no mistake.
> > > But I guess my question was this -- isn't this really a tremendous
> > > opportunity to do more than talk about what corporate packagers want
>us
> >to
> > >
> > > talk about? That's all.
> > > I wasn't too surprised to get alot of Yank "In this country we have
> > > something known as free speech" rhetoric back--What I meant to do was
> > > question the validity and the necessity of that particular topic in
>this
> > > particular forum.
> > > As someone who spent more than 15 years in mainland China, I am fully
> > > aware
> > > of what it really means to have freedom of speech taken away. Please
> > > don't
> > > be sloppy. It's an overused term in both the US and the UK. Just be
> > > aware
> > > of what it actually means.
> > > So I seem to have made people mad-- frankly don't care. I'mm going to
> > > change the subject and see if anyone wants to come with me...
> > > So here's a question...who thinks that the advant of Dance Theater as
> >(ie
> > > Pina Bausch) and contemporary Opera (ie Peter Sellars) are going to
> > > actually, radically change the way we do theater? And I don't mean
> >simply
> > >
> > > adding more music and dance to what we do.. but rather will we begin
>to
> > > conceptualize differently? will we begin to think in terms of a
>larger
> > > canvas when we make stuff?
> > > I hope to God so.
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: TimNGail@aol.com
> > > >Reply-To: rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com
> > > >To: rat-list@whirl-i-gig.com
> > > >Subject: Re: RAT THE SUPERBOWL?
> > > >Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:21:23 EST
> > > >
> > > >In a message dated 02/01/2000 4:43:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > > >luciemanheim@hotmail.com writes:
> > > >
> > > > > Why don't we talk about the Golden globes next?
> > > > > Thenw e can talk about fashion week in New York.
> > > > > Then we can talk about really "hot" writers in Hollywood.
> > > > > Then we can talk about really cool tv shows.
> > > > > Then we can talk about what we want to buy at the GAP.
> > > > > Then we can talk about Pokeman. Or teletubbies.
> > > > > Or we can just go to e online.
> > > >
> > > >hmmm.... last time I checked, the theatre I was working on had
>nothing
> >to
> > >
> > > >do
> > > >with people sitting around, stroking their goatees smoking unfiltered
> > > >Luckies
> > > >and sipping a latte while trying to pontificate about grand
> >theories....
> > > >although, that may not be a bad idea....
> > > >
> > > >I'm much more interested in work that sprouts from conversations
>about
> > > >fashion, or hot writers in Hollywood (if anyone is interested in
> >reading
> > > >it,
> > > >Gabriel and I are collaborating on a piece called OPTION dealing with
> > > this
> > > >very thing... well, kind of...), or Telletubbies, or Taymor-esque
> >puppets
> > > >making an appearance at the halftime show of the friggin Super Bowl
> > > (don't
> > > >know if I really liked the idea, or if I thought it was an
> > > >ABC/Disney/Eisner
> > > >slanderous capitalist machine in high gear... then again, whaddaya
>want
> > > >from
> > > >the Super Bowl?) or WHATEVER....
> > > >
> > > >Creation comes from the act of living. And discussing living.
> >Although,
> > > I
> > > >don't knock whatever may work for you.
> > > >
> > > >Gosh... that was deep.... well, gotta get back to my smoke and my
> > > latte....
> > > >
> > > >tim
> > > >
> > > >P.S. - who KNEW there were any "theatre types" willing to come out of
> >the
> > > >closet and admit they watch football! Testify! Hallelujah!
> > > >
> > > >P.P.S. - Sorry... the clarification should be "American football"...
>:)
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________
> > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
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